Sometimes I post dialogs I have with other people to simply promote the truth of the Christian faith as opposed to the false beliefs of other faiths. In that vein, some time back, I posted a video on YouTube called: Why Militant Atheists Attack Christians (You can view the video at:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qyiWY6lVEM&lc=UgyGlIVH4HYJhulD8_N4AaABAg.9X2aOSUyQR99X9chQ4bYba). After posting it, as I expected, I received push back from a number of Atheists. But I also got a response that I didn’t expect.
At first, this response appeared to be in support of what I had posted. This person claimed to be an evangelical Christian, and, in general, supported what I had to say about Atheists.
However, it quickly became evident that he had a further agenda. In addition to his inclination against Atheists, he also showed himself to hold some other rather strange beliefs at a worldview level – the level where he decides for himself what he believes is real vs. what is fantasy. As it turns out, this person believes the earth is flat – and he believes it based on his interpretation of the Bible.
My purpose in sharing this conversation today, though, is not so much to highlight this person’s strange beliefs about a flat earth. Rather, it is to point out how difficult it is for people to step outside of their beliefs once they are convinced they represent reality. What is true for this person concerning the nature of the earth, is also true concerning people who believe in the prosperity gospel, and even those who believe in snake handling.
As you read it, try to look past the beliefs themselves and see the dynamics at work that lead this person to believe that the earth is flat.
trapped inside the system
Yeah the psuedoscience cult they follow is sad. They lack understanding and follow people who twist the scriptures to their own destruction. Some are broken because of religion. It’s about relationship God is so misrepresented by people who haven’t battled their flesh.
They eveb think the earth is heliocentric when the earth is geocentric. Our God is not a liar and he says it is
Freddy Davis
Sarcasm noted, though you haven’t made any logical sense and you seem to be having trouble with your biblical hermeneutics.
trapped inside the system
@Freddy Davis I don’t think like the world thinks.
Job 38:14.
Also birds don’t fly in space since in genesis 1 they are in the firmament as well as the sun moon and stars.
You gonna think like the world okay but not me. God Saud to renew your mind and not follow the patterns of this world.
Freddy Davis
@trapped inside the system Sorry Mr. Trapped. You seem to be having difficulty distinguishing between the different kinds of literature in the Bible, between literal and figurative language, and you also don’t seem to know the very definitions of certain words. I have interacted with numerous people using your hermeneutical approach who claim the Bible teaches that God is evil. Your interpretation is extrememly unorthodox. Not sure really where you are coming from with your posts. Would you care to share what theological point of view you are promoting?
trapped inside the system
@Freddy Davis nope beware of false teachers.
Yall follow fake psuedoscience.
We are not to dispute as evangelical Christians.
Freddy Davis
@trapped inside the system Mr. Trapped, you are reapeating yourself without backing up what you are saying. You are literally not making any sense. Do you even know what the firmament is? Do you know the actual definition of psuedoscience? By disputing me, are you saying we are not to dispute as evangelical Christians? Your beliefs are either very strange or you are doing a horrible job of explaining your beliefs. I still have no idea where you are coming from with your posts. It would be helpful if you would answer my question and share what theological point of view you are promoting.
trapped inside the system
@Freddy Davis look I’m not trying to get in an argument. I’m a evangelical christian. The Bible follows a geocentric model and not a heliocentric model whether you understand that or not. The firmament is a dome that’s hard as glass Job 37:18.
Psuedoscience is a belief that doesn’t pass the scientific method which is heliocentrism and evolution.
These atheist push an anti God agenda and don’t know anything about what we are and how the earth works. It’s sad they deny christ and die in their sins being a govt prototype.
If you think the earth is a globe and outerspace is real and is not a plate and heaven isnt right above us yall follow the psuedoscience. The Bible clearly states everything revolves around the earth not the sun.
Josh 10 stopped the sun and the moon not the earth from spinning. The earth is stationary and the sun and moon move in a circuit around the earth. Psalms 19:6
Idk what you follow but religion isn’t what I follow. I just take God at his word not lean on my own understanding and not follow religion. The real preaching is the message in the bible and religion killed Jesus christ.
Also yes there is evidence and yes our government lied to us all.
trapped inside the system
@Freddy Davis lol I think we both misunderstood each other brother I’m a christian not an atheist.
Freddy Davis
@trapped inside the system The Bible does not advocate a heliocentric point of view. It was written before the time of modern science and the individuals who wrote the biblical text in ancient times describe the heavens as viewed from earth, not in terms of the use of the scientific method. The fact that we now have a way of observing the structure of the universe that the people in biblical times did not have says nothing about the message being expressed by the Bible. The Bible is not trying to be a science book, it is a revelation of God and his ways. Your entire way of doing biblical hermeneutics as regards cosmology is simply not true.
I appreciate that you are a Christian, and based on your self-identification as an evangelical I trust that your theology of God is correct. But you might want to rethink your attempt to hold onto a pre modern science understanding of cosmology. It is not necessary in order to believe that the Bible is 100% true.
trapped inside the system
@Freddy Davis you just called God a liar we have nothing to discuss yall are fakers in the church. God said he made it that way. Faith means taking God at his word and yall yall religious pharasiees do is listen to man and their understanding. Yall listen to worldly scholars and twist the scriptures to your own destruction.
trapped inside the system
@Freddy Davis https://youtu.be/zMHL7Y2jVs8
[Note: This is a video with a person using a powerful zoom lens to try to show that the earth is flat.]
Freddy Davis
@trapped inside the system Mr. Trapped. You really are trapped, aren’t you? I did no such thing. All you have done is to demonstrate that you don’t know how to distinguish between the different types of literature in the Bible, between literal and figurative language, how to read the text based on the point of view of those who wrote it, or how to distinguish between essential and non-essential beliefs (if that concept even makes sense to you). Your evaluation of my beliefs and theology are simply false. I am about as mainstream biblical conservative as it comes. The fact that you don’t know how to do legitimate biblical hermeneutics is what is actually evident. Where did you do your theological studies?
Freddy Davis
@trapped inside the system LOL – That video is hilarious and does not prove anything. There is a difference in an object being too far away to be seen with the naked eye and a vessel traveling over the horizion. I honestly didn’t realize that there were any honest to goodness flat earthers left. I hate to tell you this, but your belief is not true, and it is certainly not a biblical belief.
trapped inside the system
@Freddy Davis they profess to be wise but became fools god picks the foolish things and the weak things in the world and the despised things to shame the wise and the strong you have ignored God’s word and you walk in the way of pseudoscience you don’t walk in the way of the Lord but imaginations and fantasies of men for the wisdom of this world is foolishness unto God.
God made it one way not both ways Jesus said if you’re not going to believe what Moses wrote how are you going to believe what I say. Jesus said the Stars will fall in his coming if planets were true it would destroy the whole world and not part of the world there will be scoffers in the last days and you have laughed at the word of God
Freddy Davis
@trapped inside the system You know, Trapped, I have interacted with a lot of Atheists who have denied the existence of God based on their understanding of the nature of science. The problem is, they, for whatever reason, treated science as a belief system, and based on their “belief in science” made their denial. The only problem is, science is not a belief system, it is a methodology – a way of exploring the natural world using observation and experimentation. You have basically done the same thing as those Atheists, but rather than using the excuse of science to deny the existence of God, you have done it to deny the nature of His creation. The Christian faith and science are not in opposition to one another. God created the natural universe in a way that is orderly by causing it to operate by natural laws. Along with that, he created mankind in a way that allows us to study and understand it. Recognizing the actual way the natural universe is structured is not setting aside what is taught in the Bible. In your last post, once again all you have done is demonstrated your lack of understanding of biblical hermeneutics. In this case, you have specifically blurred the line between literal and figurative speech. You are interpreting the Bible in ways that get completely off track regarding its very purpose. If anyone is walking in the way of pseudoscience, it is you. Perhaps you would do well to do some actual study of how to properly interpret the Scriptures.
trapped inside the system
@Freddy Davis avoid oppositions of science falsely so called.
trapped inside the system
@Freddy Davis God warns us about such things yall false teachers are everywhere.
Freddy Davis
@trapped inside the system That doesn’t make any sense. I have no idea what you mean by that comment.
Freddy Davis
@trapped inside the system About what things? Your generalized statement doesn’t let me know what you are talking about specifically.
trapped inside the system
@Freddy Davis I’m not antiscience if that’s what you think. I’m against oppositions of science that go against the bible which is scientism.
trapped inside the system
@Freddy Davis in the book of timothy it says to avoid oppositions of science
Freddy Davis
@trapped inside the system Scientism is a specific naturalistic belief system that believes the natural universe is all that exists. You have not described Scientism.
The problem is, you are continuing to treat science as if it were a belief system. Science does not go up against the Christian faith. Science is a methodology for discovering things about the natural universe. That is all. An example of the false use of science might be the attemp to use it to back up the Theory of Evolution. No actual science does that. However, in dealing with cosmology, you are trying to use the Bible to express reality in a way that is contrary to what actual science has discovered, and in a way that is not supported by the biblical text. In the latter case, the problem is with your hermeneutics, not with science.
Freddy Davis
@trapped inside the system Paul wrote two letters to Timothy, and I’m pretty sure he didn’t address the topic of modern science. What verses are you talking about?
trapped inside the system
@Freddy Davis 1st Timothy 6 20 King James Version anyting that is called scientific that goes against the Bible is considered opposition of science if you don’t see it I think you really underestimated your enemy the devil
trapped inside the system
@Freddy Davis ugh you’ll never understand science is against us they even claim that the giant geysers from Noah’s flood are meteor craters. Psuedoscience blinds the minds.
trapped inside the system
@Freddy Davis maybe this will explain it better than I can.
It’s easier to fool someone than to convince them they been fooled
https://youtu.be/w41hTjJYANQ
[Note: This is a full length documentary film produced by a flat earther named Robbie Davidson.]
Freddy Davis
@trapped inside the system Every time you write you seem to make less sense. First, you didn’t answer the questions I asked before. And now, where in the world do you get your information about giant geysers? What giant geysers are you even talking about? You seem to be making stuff up.
Freddy Davis
@trapped inside the system Seriously? The guy that produced that film is a flat earther crackpot. First of all, the term Scientism has a very specific definition and Davidson’s definition is not it. He has taken a word that means something different and redefined it to express his personal philosophy. I am not going to watch that whole thing because I believe it is a waste of time. I did, though, watch enough of it to know not only where he is coming from, but also his approach to dealing with his topic. The people I watched in the video, all of them, did nothing more than express their opinion. There was no evidential backing, of any kind, whatsoever. Davidson doesn’t start with the teachings of the Bible to express his philosophy. He begins with a philosophy then tries to proof text Bible verses to back it up. It is exactly the same technique that Jehovah’s Witnesses and Oneness Pentecostals do to try to disprove the Trinity. What you are proposing is simply false – on its face. Now you are free to believe all of that craziness if you want, but you have to believe it in spite of what the Bible teaches, not as a result of what it teaches.
trapped inside the system
@Freddy Davis wow you profess to be wise but became a fool and you Call me a Crack pot for following God’s word this is why people don’t join religion. We follow God’s word you lean on man’s opinions. Forget yall religious people man yall need to step down.
trapped inside the system
@Freddy Davis even Jesus was against yall.
Freddy Davis
@trapped inside the system First of all, I didn’t call you a crackpot. I said Davidson is a crackpot. Second, you are not following God’s Word. Your misinterpretation of Scripture is legion – as I have already explained to you a couple of different times. As an example: You claimed 1 Tim. 6:20 speaks against science (quoting the translation of the KJV). The actual Greek word used there is gnosis – which means knowledge, not science. Back in the day that the New Testament was written, the concept of modern science did not even exist. Listen, you are free to follow the weird teachings of Davidson if you want, but it is a false belief. It is a cultic belief. You are completely out of the realm of authentic biblical Christianity.
trapped inside the system
@Freddy Davis I am following God’s word yall are not. I’m not here to dispute were done talking
Freddy Davis
@trapped inside the system You are not following God’s word. You are following a cultic rendition of God’s Word. Like I said, you are free to believe anything you want, but you would do well to do a little study on how to properly interpret Scripture.
trapped inside the system
@Freddy Davis God is right. Everything we do outside of his Word will not go right. You follow things outside the Bible we follow what’s only in the bible you go against his word by think God created an outerspace we obey his word and know he didn’t create an outer space and that his earth is flat and the sun and the moon move in a circuit with an ice wall all around to gather the seas. You however follow what the atheist ? with the 666 coding sign believe.
Freddy Davis
@trapped inside the system I’m sorry, Mr. Trapped, but you seem to remain trapped in your non-biblical world. Your assertion is silly. You believe a fantasy that has nothing to do with what is actually taught in the Bible. You have already demonstrated very specifically that you don’t have any problem misinterpreting specific Scripture passages, and that you have no problem misrepresenting the very creation of God Himself. If you are part of an actual group that believes the things you are saying, you are in a cult. You claimed to be an evangelical Christian, but your stated beliefs are far from evangelical teachings.
BTW, do you actually belong to some group that believes what you are saying? I would be interested in finding out more about it. I’m not sure you would let me know anyway since you already hide behind a pseudonym, but I thought I would ask anyway.
trapped inside the system
@Freddy Davis ugh nevermind your just a NWO [New World Order] pastor
Freddy Davis
@trapped inside the system I get it. So rather than actually debating the subject, all you have is an insult. I really don’t think you know what you are talking about and are just following the lead of a person who has a slick presentation – and still all behind your wall of anonymity. And you never answered my question: Are you part of some organized group?
trapped inside the system
@Freddy Davis lol sure I’m following God’s word and you say science has more authority than God’s word you know what else I think. Your probably one of those fakers in the church who allow women to be pastor and can speak in the church during teaching time if you say yes, yall are NWO Pastors who please men rather than God and his word you fail at galations 1:10 and don’t take the bible litterly and were supposed to listen to youuuu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ughhhhh yall have completely forgotten about the density of those who preach fakery and how they will have stricter judgement. how dare you not take God at his word and lean on your own understanding and then call me a liar. True christians dont bow down to the things of this world it seems you have bowed down to psuedoscience doctrine who is the father of lies and is doctrine of devils.
Let God be true and every man a liar.
The Bible clearly doesn’t talk about a heliocentric earth yet you just told me well science has more authority than what the Bible says don’t take it so seriously it’s not actually accurate.
I’ll go off on a pastor who teaches the devils work and doctrine regardless how many want to war against it and come at me thinking I’m wrong when I’m taking God at his word. No one can talk me down nor would they water down my church with their fake understanding and foolishness. God is true to his word yet you say science that is in the opposition of God’s word has more authority than God.
Ooooooooh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yall are completely wrong. I don’t listen to man but God’s word even if a man hates it so what I’m not here to satisfy you. Your a liar and God cannot lie and we take God at his word regardless how much you despise the idea.
trapped inside the system
@Freddy Davis and if your a calvinist ooooooooooh!!!!!!!!!!!! Im gonna go off on a faker.
If you still don’t get this you idolized scientism over God and if you really think it’s okay for a women to be a pastor were done your with the fakers and we want nothing to do with people who have a cupcake weak hearted people pleasing liar who is the kisses of the enemy. I’m a wounds of friend and I tell you bitter truth and will not step down on the word of God. It is the highest truth and all others that oppose is of the devil.
Freddy Davis
@trapped inside the system Mr Trapped. It seems you are still too ashamed to reveal your real name or the group you belong to. It is really easy, isn’t it, to blast other people from behind your wall of anonymity and spout strange theories that you have no way of supporting.
I went ahead and watched that video that you suggested to see if I could actually figure out where you were coming from. Additionally, I also did some research on Robbie Davidson to try to understand more about the mindset behind the strange things you have been saying. And here is my conclusion:
First, the video is cleverly done in a way that uses scores of assumptions and speculations combined with just enough truth to create a basic foundation for a story. Then, based on that foundation, it proceeds to create doubt about any other way of thinking, and build a case for its own in a way that could possibly persuade people who don’t understand what is being done. In the end, though, many of its conclusions are simply not true.
It is certainly true, and I fully affirm, that there is no science to support the Theory of Evolution. And, it is certainly true that cosmologists have no idea about how the universe came to exist the way it currently exists. But those facts alone do not support the concept of a flat earth or that of the entirety of the universe being housed within some kind of firmamental dome. For all of the complaining about how science speculates about the universe’s existence, the movie does exactly the same thing. It is chock full of speculation and half truths. It doesn’t start with facts. It starts with a theory then tries to marshal support for that theory using its own philosophical speculation and misinterpreted Scripture.
There is also a massive amount of railing against Scientism. Scientism is, indeed, a naturalistic belief system that asserts that the natural universe is all that exists, and is extreme in its belief that all of reality can ultimately be understood using science. It is a false belief plain and simple. It is also a belief system that has shrunk down to almost nothing in modern times. The problem is, the movie uses that false belief in a way that is at best uninformed, and at worst deceptive. To be accurate, they should be talking about Naturalism, not Scientism. Naturalism is the underlying worldview belief that the natural universe is all that exists, and Scientism is one belief system (among many) that uses that belief as a foundation. The problem with that way of dealing with it is that it causes people (including yourself) to rail against Scientism in a way that is just inaccurate. In fact, the inaccurate descriptions that you have been making is one of the things that has made it so difficult for me to understand what you have been talking about.
Another serious problem has to do with Scripture interpretation. You accuse those who believe in Scientism (Naturalism actually) of spouting forth unsupported theories to come up with naturalistic explanations of reality concerning the universe, yet Davidson (and you) have done exactly the same thing by insisting on interpreting Scripture based on a skewed perspective. Instead of evaluating Scripture through the lens of its salvific message (the message BTW that is its core and runs throughout the entire Bible), you have focused on something that, while not unimportant, is totally secondary to God’s very purpose. God’s purpose in revealing Scripture was to reveal Himself and how human beings can come to know Him in a personal relationship. Secondary matters like a person’s view of predestination, their view of the proper method of baptism, their view of eschatology, their view of women in ministry, and yes, even their view of the nature of the natural universe have nothing to do with God’s ultimate purpose for mankind. Even if someone gets those things entirely wrong it does not disqualify them from the possibility of knowing God. But you have so focused on particular legalisms that you have totally turned the Christian faith into a religion of works. That is simply an unbiblical point of view.
Additionally, you have pointed to Scripture passages that you have totally misinterpreted, and you have used a false hermeneutical framework, to accuse me to not believing the Bible. The real truth is, you don’t know how to do legitimate biblical interpretation. (I have specifically pointed out where your deficiencies lie in previous posts.) Until you get that right, you can rail at me all you want, but it is meaningless rambling.
And one last thing: In your last attack on me, you speculated about my beliefs and used that speculation as a means of condemning me. You said “if” I believe so and so Ooooooh!!!! You did that without even knowing what I believe. That is a completely un-Christian, or may I even say non-Christian, act.
As I have said before, you are certainly welcome to believe anything you want – even the very weird and unbiblical statements you have made about the nature of the universe – but your focus on things that stand outside of the purpose of God’s revelation, and your total misinterpretation of the things you do say, puts your credibility in serious jeopardy. You are following cultic teachings that are totally outside the realm of evangelical Christianity.
trapped inside the system
@Freddy Davis whatever well never agree but you can have the father of lies in your mind believing in your fake outerspace and going against the word of God but for us we don’t let anything stand in our way nor do we bow down to fake science. We follow the word of God we don’t follow the science.
Freddy Davis
@trapped inside the system Perhaps we will never agree, but I pray to the Father that He will open your eyes to the essential truth of the gospel, and that you will learn to focus on the things that have eternal value rather than on matters that have nothing to do with salvation.
trapped inside the system
@Freddy Davis I pray he will open your eyes your going against the fathers word ugh yall are the worst
trapped inside the system
@Freddy Davis fools despise knowledge and instruction
trapped inside the system
@Freddy Davis so you want to be a blind sheep who has salvation that makes no sense. I’m so glad I didn’t get corrupted by the liars in church, and I can read the word of God for myself and get out of the lies.
trapped inside the system
@Freddy Davis and you keep calling me trapped and take things out of context. I’m saying I’m trapped in this mk ultra fantasy land surrounded by a bunch of mindless zombies who don’t see anything at all that’s going on and conforming to the patterns of this world. the only way out of this madness is through Jesus christ who is the only truth in this madness yet yall pastors don’t stand up and let then control you and rather than thinking for yourself and questioning authority. Yall are the ones that make me mad because yall are people pleasers.
Freddy Davis
@trapped inside the system So you want to be a blind sheep who has salvation? That makes no sense. I’m so glad I didn’t get corrupted by the false teachings of a cult leader and can read and interpret the Word of God so that I don’t fall for the lies of false prophets. Fools despise knowledge and instruction. I pray He will open your eyes so that you will see the error of your ways.
I call you Mr. Trapped because that is the name you have given me. You still seem to have this fear that seals you behind a wall of anonymity. I would be glad to address you by your real name if you cared to share it. You have also not been willing to share anything about the group you associate with beyond posting the link to a video by a really strange cultish figure.
And there you go again speculating about me without knowing anything about me. I’m sorry that my spelling out the truth for you is making you mad. I do hope, though, that one day you will be able to see past the madness that your cultic beliefs have engendered. You strain at a gnat but swallow a camel.
Conclusion
At this point, Mr. Trapped quit communicating with me. He obviously felt that he had gone as far as he could. There are a couple of things I hope you will get out of this conversation, though.
First, there are a lot of false beliefs out there, many that sit outside of what we normally think of when dealing with false religions – and there are different reasons people fall into them. Being aware of the possibilities helps us understand and interact with people like that.
Second, I went out of my way, over and over again, to explain why what he was saying was wrong and how he could correct it.
Hopefully, reading this conversation will give you some hints as to how you can interact with various people you know who hold strange non-biblical beliefs.
© 2022 Freddy Davis