I frequently post blogs related to the worldview perspective of things going on in society, and a Facebook conversation emerged out of a recent one that I did called Why Would the Government Consider Closing Down Churches? You may read it at: https://leadershipbooks.store/blogs/freddy-davis/why-would-the-government-consider-closing-down-churches?fbclid=IwAR3YZEQefcb1n8HDqBZwY-Rp2BthGioTZJDHDmn2Gp-jDoLpiKNSv5SOv2c
Initially there were several people who jumped into the conversation, but it quickly narrowed down to one other person who was an Atheist. I took this opportunity, as I sometimes do, to speak Christ into this person’s life.
Obviously, when dealing with someone like this on a social media platform, you have to drill past the opposition in order to share a witness. I have found that one of the most effective ways of doing this is to ask questions that expose the problems with the other person’s belief system. You will notice in this conversation that I asked a lot of questions – each one designed to make the person examine his own false statements and perceptions. Doing this forces people to come face to face with the false beliefs they are advocating, and, hopefully, bring them a step closer to acknowledging Christ.
We need to be aware that there are usually various stages to the witnessing process. There is the “soil preparation” stage (where you prepare the person to at least hear the message), the “seed sowing” stage (where you have the opportunity to share the Gospel message), and the “harvesting stage” (where you are actually able to lead the person to receive Christ). When dealing with people like those in this conversation, it is mostly “soil preparation.” It is my prayer that somewhere down the line, other people will be able to continue a faithful witness to this person.
JL
It’s not up to the government to close churches, the people need to realize they no longer need them and can think for themselves without the need for an imaginary sky daddy to lean on.
MH
JL – imaginary sky daddy??? The moment you die you will become an instant believer. Only you will be in a place you do not want to be
JESUS IS LORD
AC
(Here, AC posted a meme directed at MH.)
AC
MH – put down ur bible n pick up a history book, please.
JL
MH – According to a friend of mine who watched me die and was revived, I still don’t believe in a god so you are wrong.
Freddy Davis
And how do you know God is imaginary? I think you just made that up.
JL
Freddy Davis – The god of the bible is imaginary because of the immoral acts that god advocates such as slavery and genocide. An actual god would be against those things.
Freddy Davis
If you believe that God does not exist, then you have no objective basis for making any kind of moral evaluation. Where do you get your moral beliefs from?
JL
Freddy Davis – I am skeptical if all god claims but if you need an old book to tell you right from wrong, you missed the logic boat. Morality comes from years of evolutionary processes.
Freddy Davis
Oh really? And how do you know that is true? It is not true just because you claim it. You dis the Bible based on what … your own personal opinion? Who are you to be the ultimate arbiter of morality? What are you basing your “logic” upon? You are just making it up as you go along.
JL
Freddy Davis – Animals were here way before people were and they became the precursors of morality which has been scientifically demonstrated.
JL
Freddy Davis – Bonobos and chimps have demonstrated empathy which forms the basis of morality.
JL
Freddy Davis – Even my f___ing cat has demonstrated a form of morality without reading an old book of nonsense.
Freddy Davis
That does not even make any sense. What are you even talking about? Precursors of morality? What is that? In order for morality to even exist, there has to be some self-conscious being capable of thinking in moral terms. Only man has that capability. So show me the science that proves man got it from non self-conscious animals by natural evolutionary processes. It is not true just because you believe it. If you are going to claim science on this, show me the science.
But you are not only claiming an evolutionary source, you have actually claimed certain things are moral and some things are not. Why do you get to be the judge of that?
JL
Animals are self conscious, they make decisions based on their subconscious. We are also animals and do the same things, we are just more evolved and can process morality for efficiently.
JL
More efficiently
Freddy Davis
Oh, I didn’t realize that you were able to read your cat’s mind. That sure changes things. You are making assumptions about causes that you simply can’t know. How do you know that what they are demonstrating has anything to do with morality? Your argument is not based on science, it is based purely on your imaginings. You still have not answered my questions.
JL
Freddy Davis – science is based on observed behavior which has been demonstrated and peer reviewed. Demonstrate your god and get him to appear.
JL
Freddy Davis – There are plenty of peer reviewed papers on Bonobos being observed with having empathy and compassion for their fellow mate.
Freddy Davis
But the observations have to be interpreted, and the naturalistic interpretive framework you are proposing has not been demonstrated or peer reviewed. You keep asserting that what you are saying is true, yet you steadfastly refuse to give any evidence for it. Science is a methodology, not a belief system, yet you keep asserting beliefs that you have not proven to be true using science. What evidence do you have that non-human animals are self-conscious? There is none! What is the biological mechanism whereby less complex life forms are able to naturally evolve to more complex forms? Again, science cannot demonstrate any of this. It is assumed to be true based on naturalistic philosophical beliefs because Naturalists do not accept any other possibility. But the rejection of transcendent reality has no scientific basis. It is a religious belief. Your personal belief about this topic is not true just because you believe it. Show me the science.
JL
Freddy Davis – Science has demonstrated animals have empathy and cognitive abilities, it’s not a personal belief if it can be tested and demonstrated to be true. Can you do the same with a god?
JL
Freddy Davis – Btw I observed my cat nursing a baby raccoon which demonstrated my cat has empathy.
Freddy Davis
First of all, empathy has not been demonstrated. Empathy is a self-conscience expression, and non-human animals are not self conscious. They can show affection, but that is not the same as empathy. Cognitive abilities also do not necessarily imply self-consciousness. You are making arguments that are simply not true.
But more importantly, you have totally ignored the most important questions I have asked. You keep making arguments that assume your naturalistic presuppositions are true, but have given no evidence for them – much less evidence based on science (which Naturalism actually requires).
Freddy Davis
… and your continual pointing to unnamed “peer reviewed” papers is not compelling.
JL
Freddy Davis – Of course it wouldn’t be compelling to you because most god believers are science deniers. Go figure.
Freddy Davis
Absolutely not true. I absolutely believe in the scientific method. The problem is, you are not pointing to any science. All you have done is express your personal opinion based on naturalistic philosophy. Show me the actual science that demonstrates that evolutionary theory is true. I keep waiting.
Why is it that you keep dodging my questions and changing the subject?
JL
Freddy Davis – I am NOT the f___ing subject. you would much rather believe in your fairly tale than actual science which is responsible for this conversation.
Freddy Davis
Your insults are not an argument. The subject is the truth of the beliefs you have been asserting. You call my beliefs a fairy tale, but you have yet to give any evidence of that. You also keep asserting your naturalistic beliefs and you have yet to give any evidence that those are true either. And you keep talking about science, and you have not given me any of that either. Do you have anything to say beyond your own personal, non-supported opinion? I’m really interested in hearing it.
JL
Freddy Davis – There is a s___load of information regarding evolution. I suggest you put down the book of myths and read something useful.
Freddy Davis
You keep saying that, but you have yet to share any. But I am patient.
JL
Freddy Davis -The bible isn’t a science book it never will be.
Freddy Davis
No one ever said it was. What is your point?
JL
Freddy Davis – Its easy to research yourself. Talk to a science professor at a college or take some basic biology courses.
JL
Freddy Davis – You are far likely to believe them than me.
Freddy Davis
JL – In other words, you don’t know how to deal with my questions so you are putting me off. You are the one who made your assertions, so why is it up to me to try to prove your beliefs? I’m sorry, but you are simply wrong in this case. There is no science to demonstrate your naturalistic beliefs. They are based purely on faith. If you really want to understand this, you might want to check out my book “The Truth Mirage.” www.freddydavis.com
At this point, JL quit the conversation. That is not an uncommon response when people come to a place where they realize they really don’t have any actual evidence to back up their assertions.
In a conversation like this, I generally don’t have any expectation that the person will come to Christ, or even that I will have an opportunity to actually share the Gospel message. You can see how, at this stage of his life, JL was not in any frame to hear any message from the Bible. Thus, my intent in a conversation like this is merely to begin breaking down the false beliefs that the person holds in the hope that, at some point, they will realize that their own beliefs don’t stand up to scrutiny. Until that happens, the person has no personal reason to even consider the possibility of another point of view.
I hope that as you read the conversation, you noted how I used questions to sow seeds of doubt in JL’s mind about his own worldview beliefs. It is also my hope and prayer that as you read this conversation, you will recognize ways you can similarly use questions to begin breaking down the faith walls of people you know who don’t know Christ.
© 2020 Freddy Davis