After having the discussion with the Unitarian believer that was previously posted on the MarketFaith Ministries website, I have ended up having a follow up discussion with that same person.
Unitarianism is the belief that there is no Trinity – that only the Father is actually God. Jesus Christ is believed to be a creation of God, and the Holy Spirit is generally considered to be an expression of the work of God.
Unitarian beliefs are not an expression of biblical theology – they are an expression of unitarian philosophy. Biblical theology discovers all that the Bible says about a topic then puts it all together to come to an understanding of the truth. In unitarian philosophy, the beliefs about God are not derived from the full counsel of Scripture, but rather, it uses a method of biblical interpretation that begins with the philosophy itself (the belief that God is a unity, not a Trinity), then uses proof-texting to search out Bible verses that seem to back up the philosophy. In using that approach, Unitarians ignore, or try to explain away, any verses that don’t agree with their basic Unitarianism. In this discussion, I did not try to match this Unitarian proof text for proof text, but rather focused on the errors of his interpretive method – which has led to his false teachings. You will see in my dealings with him that I used that approach almost exclusively. With him, anytime I gave him actual Scripture that contradicted his beliefs, he either simply ignored it or claimed it did not mean what I said it meant.
Unitarianism is a very old philosophy. It was actually rather prominent in certain places in the first few centuries of Christianity. It was begun by a man named Arius (256–336 AD), who was a presbyter in the church in Alexandria, Egypt. While Arianism was recognized as a heresy in the early church, the Arian Heresy (Unitarianism) has persisted to this day and is still seen in such groups as Jehovah’s Witnesses, Oneness Pentecostals, Mormons, and many others.
This conversation began with a post by Unitarian on Facebook. When he posted it, I entered the conversation and it went from there.
Unitarian (Initial post)
“I and the Father are one”—John 10:30
“The Father and the Son are in perfect unity in their natures and actions, but the neuter form of ‘one’ rules out the meaning that they are one person”—Ryrie Study Bible
Trinitarians use John 10:30 to try “prove” that Jesus is either God or equal to God. However, in John 10:29, Jesus says “My Father . . . is greater than all” (NAB), so their being ‘equal’ is ruled out, which also eliminates the possibility that Jesus could be God. And here, above, Bible scholar Ryrie makes clear that Jesus and God are not the same person.
(The beginning of the discussion)
Freddy Davis
They are not one person, they are one “being.” Your continued lack of understanding of the concept of Trinity is there for all to see.
Unitarian
Freddy Davis “In God there are three persons who subsist in one nature . . . not explicitly a Biblical belief” (Dictionary of the Bible). I understand exactly what Trinitarians claim is true of their idol. In fact, “some [Trinitarians] were shouting one thing, others [Trinitarians] something else” (Acts 19:32 NAB). “You people [Trinitarians] worship what you do not understand; we worship what we [non-Trinitarians] understand” (John 4:22 NAB). “We also know that the Son of God has come and has given us discernment to know the one who is true. And we are in the one who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life” (1 John 5:20 NAB). “The true God” has a “Son Jesus Christ”.
Freddy Davis
Your propensity for misinterpretation of Scripture knows no bounds – along with your ability to misuse Scripture to beat up on people. You give a definition, but you you don’t understand the implications of the definition you give. You say you understand, but then interpret your definition in ways that do not correspond with the real meaning. You really do not get it.
Unitarian
Freddy Davis Not true! You’re misconstruing rejection of the Trinity doctrine as misunderstanding. Trinitarians worship the Triune God. “The true worshippers will worship the Father” (John 4:23). Jesus said the “Father” is “the only true God” (John 17:1,3). The worship of anyone, or anything, other than “the true God” is idolatry (1 John 5:20,21).
Freddy Davis
I say you misunderstand because every time you try to describe it you misstate what it actually is. That is the very definition of misunderstanding (or not understanding).
Unitarian
Freddy Davis The problem for Trinitarians is that there is no Triune God mentioned anywhere in the Scriptures. According to the OT and the NT, “God is only one” (Gal 3:20 NASB). “There is only one God, the Father” (1 Corinthians 8:6). Jesus said that he and his “Father” were “two men” (John 8:17,18 NAB). “The Lord God almighty” is consistently shown to be someone other than Jesus Christ (Rev 21:22).
JC (Another person interjected his thought)
You both make good points and all is being lost because of the way you each interpret God’s word. Rest… And know that God will and knows everyones heart.
Freddy Davis
Unitarian The full scope of the doctrine of salvation is also not mentioned in the Bible in any one place. The Bible clearly speaks of justification, sanctification, and glorification, but nowhere are they all put together in one place and explained as the full scope of the doctrine of salvation. Your argument about how the Bible teaches the doctrine of the Trinity is simply bad hermeneutics. The truth is, there are many doctrines in the Bible that are not fully explained in one place. That is why a study of systematic theology is so important. Your observation is simply in error.
Unitarian
Freddy Davis You’re using a common fallacy of reasoning here called Oversimplification. How? By ignoring the facts that “salvation” is mentioned numerous times in the scriptures, whereas Trinity is never even mentioned at all in the scriptures. Since the Trinity doctrine is such an important doctrine to most groups claiming to be Christian, a reasonable, thinking person’s mind is alerted by the fact that not even once is Trinity ever mentioned, much less explained, in any of the 31,000 verses in the 66 canonical books
Freddy Davis
No, that is not oversimplification. It is giving an example of another doctrine that must be understood by doing something more than proof texting. The fact that salvation is mentioned many times in Scripture does not mean that it can be fully understood in any single passage. In fact, it can’t. In order to get the full implications of it, it is necessary to do a systematic study. The fact that the word Trinity is not used in the Bible does not in any way mean that the concept is not there. In fact, it is there in abundance. You are, once again, simply mistaken and have, once again, shown your complete lack of understanding of the concept of Trinity.
Unitarian
Freddy Davis You again misconstrue disagreement with lack of understanding. You minimize the fact that Trinity is never mentioned in the Scriptures, whereas a scriptural teaching, such as salvation, is mentioned numerous times. If such an important teaching as the Trinity was actually scriptural, it only stands to reason it should not only be mentioned numerous times, but would be explained, and would not contradict the scriptures. The Trinity dogma contradicts numerous scriptures. It’s very simple. “There is only one God, the Father” (1 Corinthians 8:6 NJB). The “Father” is “the only true God” (John 17:1,3). “The true God” has “his Son Jesus Christ” (1 John 5:20), who is also “his servant” (Acts 3:13). “God is One . . . he . . . him” (Mark 12:32,33 NAB), not three. “The true worshippers will worship the Father” (John 4:23), whom Jesus calls “my God” (John 20:17; Revelation 3:12). The Trinity doctrine contradicts all these scriptures.
Freddy Davis
No, it does not stand to reason that since the word Trinity is not used in the Scripture that it is not a real description of how God is described in the Bible. The only reason you think the concept contradicts Scripture is that you don’t understand the concept itself. I am not misconstruing disagreement with lack of understanding. If it was merely disagreement you would not continually misrepresent what it is. You literally do not understand the concept and your arguments show it. You make arguments that do not actually address the issues involved. All you continually do is proof text verses out of context. Your argument is simply based on an erroneous hermeneutic. The basis of your argumentation is unitarian philosophy, not biblical theology.
Unitarian
Freddy Davis You can assert all you want that I don’t understand the doctrine. However sincere, one’s belief does does not equate to truth (Pr 14:12; 16:25). I understand very well what the doctrine claims. For the umpteenth time, the problem is not just that the word Trinity, and its concepts, are absent from the scriptures! An even more serious deficiency is that the scriptures contradict every aspect of the doctrine. The Scriptures make clear that “God is One . . . he . . . him” (Mark 12:29,32,33 NAB), that is, God is only one person, not three, as Trinitarianism asserts.
Freddy Davis
I think I have already addressed that sufficiently. Just repeating yourself after I have explained to you why your explanation is not valid really doesn’t do anything to help your argument.
Unitarian
Freddy Davis “It is hard for you to kick against the goad” (Acts 26:14 NAB). When someone has a weak argument, a typical tactic they use is attacking the messenger (John 7:48,49), because the facts are not on their side. Trinitarians, such as yourself, usually resort to this when their attempts support their doctrine are scripturally refuted. The scriptures say nothing of your “Triune God”, and they 100 % support the fact that “there is only one God, the Father” (1 Corinthians 8:6 NJB).
Freddy Davis
Perhaps that is true in some cases. But in this case the problem is your incorrect use of Scripture. You can’t expect a correct interpretation when you use an illegitimate hermeneutical methodology and you misinterpret the Scriptures you are attempting to express. Your assertion that the concept of Trinity is refuted by Scripture is simply false. The fact that you can’t see it does not change the facts.
Unitarian
Freddy Davis “O GOD, I will tell of your singular justice” (Psalm 71:16 NJB). I’m sorry, but according to the scriptures, Almighty God is “singular”, not Triune. “Yahweh our God is the one, the only Yahweh” (Deuteronomy 6:4 NJB). Scripturally, only one person is Yahweh, in contrast with the Trinity doctrine, which claims that there are three who identify as Yahweh.
Freddy Davis
Continuing to use wrong interpretive methodology does not prove your point.
Singular justice does not in any way imply a unitarian God. That is a reference to the nature of the justice, not to the nature of God.
The Scriptures teach that there is one God. Your continued assertion that that means God can’t be three persons within that one God cannot be supported by Scripture. Your conclusion comes purely from unitarian philosophy, not biblical theology. Your erroneous interpretive methodology continues to lead you to wrong conclusions.
Unitarian
Freddy Davis “I will come in the power of Yahweh to tell of your justice, yours alone” (Ps 71:16 NJB). This justice comes from Yahweh “alone”. So, it does, indeed, mean that he is a “singular” God (Ps 71:16 NAB)!!!!! Check the Hebrew. Just because God theoretically could possibly be “three persons within that one God”, doesn’t mean that he is. You see the problem for Trinitarians is that nowhere in scripture is God mentioned, or even implied, as being “three persons within that one God”. In scripture “there is only one God” (Rom 3:30 NJB). And this “one God” is never identified in scripture as being three, but as “the Father” (1 Cor 8:6), “THE GOD AND FATHER OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST” (2 Cor 1:3).
Freddy Davis
No it does not mean that. Your interpretation concerning the notion of justice as it applies to the nature of God is simply in error. You are making assumptions about one thing and applying it to something entirely different. The argument is a complete non sequitur.
You obviously continue to think that since the word Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible that God could not be a Trinity. Your argument is like saying that the various characteristics of God can’t all be true because there is no single place in the Bible where they are listed. It is simply a false argument. The entire basis of your argument is founded on a false hermeneutic and a false philosophy.
And based on the full counsel of Scripture, it is impossible for a unitarian God to exist. It is not even theoretically possible. To have that kind of God would put limits on Him the that Bible does not recognize. Your unitarian philosophy is simply a false view of God.
Unitarian
Freddy Davis No, my friend, “Yahweh is the true God and there is no other” (Dt 4:35 NJB). It is the Triune God that is totally 100% impossible, “based on the full council scripture, all 31,000 plus verses. “See now that I, I alone, am he, and there is no god besides me” (Dt 32:39 NAB). Yahweh, the true God, is always described using singular pronouns. Not only is the “three persons who subsist in one nature” concept never mentioned once in the scriptures, the scriptures completely contradict such a preposterous idea! “The Lord our God is the one, the only Lord” (Mk 12:29 NJB). “He is one . . . him” (Mk 12:32,33 NJB), not three he/hims.
Freddy Davis
Of course Yahweh is the true God. I think I have affirmed that over and over. Once again you have demonstrated your inability to comprehend the concept of Trinity. It is very appropriate to use a singular pronoun when there is only one God. Your argument simply does not address the real issue at hand. Yes, “The Lord our God is one, the only Lord.” I think we have well established that. But that does not even speak to the nature of that God. You continue to make arguments that assert your point of view, but do not prove that Unitarianism is true. The Trinity “concept” is not mentioned in Scripture because the Scriptures were not written to be a textbook on theology. It was written to reveal God (a God that is eternal and beyond the ability of humans to know outside of that revelation) and his ways. The Bible is full of descriptions that reveal his Triunity (in spite of your attempts to ignore or explain them away).
Unitarian
Freddy Davis There isn’t a single scripture that has “descriptions that reveal his Triununity”, as you claim. You statement “the Scriptures were not written to be a textbook on theology” implies that ‘textbooks on theology” are necessary for Christians. However, “All scripture is inspired by God”, through which the Christian “becomes fully equipped and ready for any good work” (2 Tim 3:16,17 NJB). The scriptures do (not) need any supplementation (1 Cor 4:6; Rev 22:18,19). The only way the Trinity can be supported is through such “man-made ideas” (Mk 7:7 NLT), since it isn’t in the scriptures themselves.
Freddy Davis
Of course all Scripture is inspired and all of the information God has revealed about Himself is in Scripture. But, the Scripture still has to be interpreted, and if you use a hermeneutical methodology that is wrong, you end up with wrong interpretations. That is what you are doing. It is not a matter of supplementation, it is a matter of correct interpretation. Your entire methodology is faulty. Proof texting based on a false philosophical underpinning will lead you to error. Unitarian philosophy is a false philosophical underpinning.
Unitarian
Freddy Davis The Scriptures encourage “proof-texting” (Acts 17:2,3,11). As with everything else, however, the scriptural principle of “strict impartiality” (1 Tim 5:21 REB) should be practiced. My hermeneutical methodology is “the scriptures are God’s inspired word”, and are “useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness” (2 Tim 3:16 NAB). As such, “the word of God is living and effective, sharper than any two-edged sword” (Heb 4:12 NAB), and cuts through false doctrines such the Trinity, like soft butter. Trinitarians are stung by it, and push back by claims like “you don’t understand it”, and “your philosophy, or methodology, etc, is false”.
Unitarian
Freddy Davis The scriptures are full statements like “God is only one” (Gal 3:20 NASB), and there is only one God” (Rom 3:30 NJB), there is only one God, the Father” (1 Cor 8:6 NJB). Yes, I know Trinitarians claim to believe this also. However, they also claim that “in God there are three persons who subsist in one nature” (Dictionary of the Bible). The real problem for Trinitarians are that there are zero scriptures that say this. Zero scriptures that say there are three divine persons within the one being that is God. Nothing in all of the 31,000 plus scriptures that say anything about three persons in the one God. There would be something along these lines. But, no, it’s entirely “man-made ideas” (Mk 7:7 NLT).
Freddy Davis
I think think we have been over this numerous times. I guess if you don’t understand by now, you probably won’t.
You don’t seem to understand the concept of systematic theology, either. As I keep repeating, your entire approach to hermeneutics is faulty. Your proof texting methodology is made for creating false beliefs. Virtually every cult that has ever spun off of Christianity has used the method you are touting. Using that methodology, you can literally make the Bible say anything you want it to say. You have done it over and over again by using particular phrases and cherry-picked verses while ignoring all of the passages of Scripture where the Trinity concept is expressed. And when those are pointed out to you, you dismiss them out of hand – not based on actual Scriptural teachings, but based on your unitarian philosophical presuppositions. You can keep on doing that if your want, but you will keep on making the same errors in interpretation.
Unitarian
Freddy Davis You keep falsely claiming that you’ve ‘proved the Trinity doctrine true’, and yet you have not used a single scripture in any of your posts here!!! And you ignore the fact that NOT A SINGLE SCRIPTURE OUT OF 31,000 PLUS SAY THAT GOD IS THREE–ANYTHING!!! ALL THE SCRIPTURES SAY THAT “GOD IS ONLY ONE” (Galatians 3:20 NASB). I’ve shared with you here numerous scriptures that prove the Trinity false. It’s very simple, Jesus said that “THE ONLY TRUE GOD” is his “FATHER” (John 17:1,3). “There is only one God, the Father” (1 Corinthians 8:6 NJB). “The true God” has “his Son Jesus Christ” (1 John 5:20). “The Lord our God is the one, only Lord . . . he is one , , , him” (Mark 12:29,32,33 NJB).
Freddy Davis
I haven’t “proved” anything (just as you haven’t) . However, I have given the philosophical AND scriptural justification. I guess you have forgotten the three articles I shared with you that lays the entire thing out. Would you like the links again?
I haven’t ignored anything. Your entire argument, that I have ignored things, is bogus. You simply don’t have a clue how to do proper biblical hermeneutics. Where did you say you studied theology again?
Unitarian
Freddy Davis Rather than continue to attack me, and my supposed ‘lack of proper understanding, and theological education’, why don’t you simply show us a scripture that says that there are three persons within the one being that is God?
Freddy Davis
Unitarian Actually, I have not “attacked” you, but have simply been pushing back against your incorrect understanding of Scripture. I fully recognize that people don’t have to have a formal theological education to read and understand the Bible. However, when you haven’t learned that not all biblical interpretation can be done using proof texts, you are subject to making interpretive errors — as you continue to do. That is a case where some formal theological education could be very helpful for you.
As for your desire for me to use a proof texting methodology to push back against yours, that would not be a helpful discussion. If I did, I would put myself in the same kind of position as you are in where the basis of my assertions would be based on some philosophical strain rather than the full biblical text. That very approach is not legitimate and I will not do it.
But I have shared with you a very extensive biblical explanation for the doctrine – many times. And rather than accept what I have shared, you simply dismiss it as not valid (with no justification for that, I might add). The problem is not that there is no scriptural backing, but that you are so stuck on your proof texting methodology that you are not able to grasp the fullness of the way God has actually revealed Himself. You don’t know how to interpret Scripture if you can’t proof text. But when you proof text only, you necessarily miss many of the things that are explained in Scripture based on different kinds of explanations. So, you end up having to get your philosophical backing from someplace else and then search for scripture verses that seem to back up your presuppositions. It is bad hermeneutics and you end up with wrong conclusions.
Unitarian
Freddy Davis Same ol’, same ol’!!! “A flood of words” (Proverbs 10:19 NJB), zero scriptures. Your bluffs just don’t work around here. Paul “developed the arguments from scripture for them, explain and proving how it was ordained that the Christ should suffer and rise from the dead” (Acts 17:2,3 NJB). This is how true doctrines are proved, by using the scriptures. “Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God” (John 20:31), not “God the Son”.
Freddy Davis
Unitarian Since you have not been willing to acknowledge the Scriptures I have given you already, why should I repeat them?
Unitarian
Freddy Davis “So Pilate came out to them and said, ‘What charge do you bring against this man?’ They answered and said to him, ‘If he were not a criminal, we would not have handed him over to you’” (John 18:29,30 NAB). All you’ve given is one long bluff– just like “the chief priests and the elders” before “Pilate” (Matthew 27:1,2 NAB)–you’ve produced no scriptures. If the Trinity is really a scriptural doctrine, it should be very easy to show us at least one scripture that says that God is Triune.
Freddy Davis
Simply not true. I have shared quite a bit of Scripture with you. Why would you tell an untruth like that?
Unitarian
Freddy Davis Then it should be easy for you to show us a scripture that mentions the Triune God. You can’t do it because there are none.
Freddy Davis
Unitarian Your hubris is incredible. Is your memory so short that you don’t remember all of the explanation (including Scripture passages) I have shared with you? You are stuck not being able to defend your position so you keep attacking me about things I have dealt with extensively with you – thinking that constantly repeating the same falsehood will somehow make it true.. It is not a good look.
Unitarian
Freddy Davis No, please show us a scripture with the Triune God in it!!!
Freddy Davis
Unitarian What you are asking for is not part of the criteria for affirming the validity of the Trinity doctrine (or any other doctrine for that matter). You are basing your request off of a false hermeneutical approach. Proof texting is not a valid interpretive model UNLESS the doctrine has already been established through the whole counsel of Scripture. It has with the Trinity doctrine, and it has not for the Unitarian doctrine.
In the past, I have given your not only the foundational underpinning of the doctrine of Trinity, I have also given you a systematic biblical explanation. But since you seem to have forgotten, let me give you the links for that again.
1. http://www.marketfaith.org/2015/06/why-belief-in-the-trinity-is-essential-in-christianity-part-1-understanding-the-concept-of-the-trinity/
2. http://www.marketfaith.org/2015/06/why-belief-in-the-trinity-is-essential-in-christianity-part-2-the-importance-of-the-doctrine-of-the-trinity/
3. http://www.marketfaith.org/2015/06/why-belief-in-the-trinity-is-essential-in-christianity-part-3-the-biblical-basis-for-the-trinity/
4. http://www.marketfaith.org/2015/06/why-belief-in-the-trinity-is-essential-in-christianity-part-4-the-biblical-basis-for-the-trinity/
You still don’t seem to realize that your simplistic proof-texting hermeneutic must still depend on some kind of guidance for making its judgments about the doctrines it accepts. Since you are not willing to accept many of the things that are written in the Bible about the nature of God, your foundational basis is necessarily something other than the Bible – it is unitarian philosophy. Until your get that, you will continue to make the same error you have been making all along.
Unitarian
Freddy Davis Thanks! Your link #1 cannot be opened because of “Internal Server Error”. Your link #2 only has one scripture in it–Genesis 2:24–which says nothing about any Trinity. Your links #3 and 4 do have a number of scriptures, none of which say anything about a Trinity. Your last link: “Why Belief in the Trinity is Essential in Christianity” has no scriptures at all. Thanks, but I’ll stick with what the scriptures say about God. “He is One . . . him” (Mark 12:29,32,33 NAB), not three!!!
Freddy Davis
Unitarian There must be something wrong with your computer. The links open fine in mine. (Besides that, I have given you the links before and you claimed to have read them then.) That said, your response says everything that needs saying. It confirms everything I have said about your knowledge and understanding of hermeneutics, and your willingness to examine the full counsel of Scripture to get at the fullness of God’s revelation. You are obviously married to your proof texting methodology and are not willing at all to even examine the full body of Scripture that deals with the nature of God. You have made your choice. What that means is that there are things about God and his nature and work in the world that you will never understand.
Unitarian
Freddy Davis Please read my post carefully. It was only your #1 that wouldn’t open. I examined the scriptures that you had in your links 2,3, & 4, and none of them mention a Triune God. Any doctrine that cannot be proven by using the scriptures as to whether it so, will always be rejected by me and other scripturally focused Christians (Luke 24:27,44; Acts 17:2,3,11). We’re told to test all things by using the scriptures, and not to go beyond them (1 Corinthians 4:6; 1 Thessalonians 5:21; 1 John 4:1).
Freddy Davis
Unitarian You see, my response does use the Scriptures. The problem in your mind is that they don’t use the Scriptures according to your formula (which is flawed). Sorry you can’t comprehend that.
Unitarian
Freddy Davis Yes, indeed, your links #3 & 4 do use a number of scriptures. However, I’ve asked you numerous times to show a scripture that has your “Triune God” in it. None of the scriptures that you quoted do. You cannot produce even one single scripture that does. If it was possible you would have done it already. The reason why is that your “Triune God” is “nothing” (Isaiah 41:24 NAB). It’s nonexistent!
Freddy Davis
Seriously? You actually don’t understand the answers I give, do you? I tell you what I do and why. Then I give you the problems associated with what you do. And what do you do? You keep on repeating the same erroneous comments as if much repetition will change reality. Your methodology is flawed, wrong, and does not lead to the truth. Proof texting without the backing of the whole counsel of Scripture leads to heresy (like the Arian heresy – Unitarianism). The Scriptures in the articles DO explain the concept of Trinity. You are simply in error in your conclusions because your biblical interpretation is wrong.
Unitarian
Freddy Davis No, I’m not taking anything out of context, as you allege with claims of my so-called “proof-texting”. It is you Trinitarians who resort to taking scriptures out of context to “prove” the unscriptural Trinity doctrine.
Freddy Davis
Unitarian I have a question for you. Do you believe God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent? Oh wait. Sorry about that. There is no verse in the Bible that has those three things together. In fact, those words are not even in the Bible. Sorry, my bad.
Unitarian
Freddy Davis Those words are not in the scriptures. When we “test” (1 Thessalonians 5:21; 1 John 4:1; Acts 17:11) them against the scriptures, what do we find? God is “perfect in knowledge” (Job 36:4 NAB), so we could rightly say that he is “omniscient”. He is “God the Almighty” (Genesis 17:1; Exodus 6:2,3 NAB), so we can rightly say that he is “omnipotent”. However, since it is rightly said that “heaven” is “THE PLACE WHERE YOU RESIDE” (1 Kings 8:43 NJB), and since “Christ . . . entered heaven itself, so that he now appears in the presence of God on our behalf” (Hebrews 9:24 NJB), God is not “omnipresent”. He is located in a definite place in heaven. He doesn’t need to be, because “Where shall I go to escape your spirit? Where shall I go to escape your presence?’ (Psalm 139:7 NJB). God can “send forth [his] spirit” (Psalm 104:30 NAB) anywhere he wants to. His spirit represents him, and can be said to be synonymous with his “presence”. But he himself is not omnipresent.
Freddy Davis
Unitarian Well, thank you for providing another example of your twisted hermeneutic and a new example of your false theology. Your theology is even stranger than I realized, and your understanding of the nature of God is far from what the Bible actually teaches. As I said before, using your proof-texting methodology, you can make the Bible say literally anything you want it to say. Your theology does not come from the Bible, it comes from unitarian philosophy.
Unitarian
Freddy Davis “If I have spoken wrongly, testify to the wrong; but if I have spoken rightly, why do you strike me?” (John 18:23 NAB). God can “send [his] spirit” (Psalm 104:30 NAB) anywhere he wants to, so omnipresence is not required. “Where can I go from your spirit?” (Psalm 139:7 NAB). The obvious answer is nowhere. Nothing can escape from God’s spirit. “No, the arm of Yahweh is not too short to save, nor his ear too dull to hear” (Isaiah 59:1 NJB). Does Yahweh have literal arms and ears?–No, of course not! It’s not necessary, because he can control everything from “heaven where [he] reside[s]” (1 Kings 8:43 NJB).
Unitarian
Freddy Davis If Jesus, who was in Cana of Galilee, could heal the royal official’s son a number of miles away in Capernaum (John 4:46-54), then surely “God the Almighty”, who is “preeminent in power” (Exodus 6:2,3; Job 37:23 NAB), can do anything he wants to, from any distance, without having to be omnipresent!!!!
Unitarian
Freddy Davis Trinitarians are the ones who limit God, with their imposition of omnipresence upon him!
Freddy Davis
Unitarian I guess you don’t realize that the conclusion you have just reached is not based on the Bible giving a description of how God worked in that situation, but rather on your speculation about how it must have been based on your unitarian philosophy. Your entire approach to biblical interpretation is based on that. Your teaching is simply a false teaching and you don’t even recognize why.
Unitarian
Freddy Davis I shared a number of scriptures proving that Almighty God is not omnipresent, and doesn’t need to be. Your comment indicates that you don’t like that fact, but you have no scriptures to prove otherwise!
Freddy Davis
Unitarian No, that’s not what it proves at all. In fact, all you have done is what you always do — which is to try to find out of context Scripture passages to try to back up your preconceived unitarian philosophy. Your entire theology is non-biblical in spite of your constant assertions to the contrary. Your teachings are simply false.
Unitarian
Freddy Davis This describes you: “They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm” (1 Timothy 1:7 NIV). Your assertions have zero scriptural support, as indicated the lack of scriptures in your posts. I will never accept your unscriptural assertions.
Freddy Davis
Unitarian No. Actually it describes you. What you are calling scriptural support is actually out of context verses designed to back up unitarian philosophy. They do not take into account the full counsel of Scripture.
At this point, the Unitarian quit interacting on this string. That said, he is still as active as ever on Facebook.
Up until recently I really didn’t know much about the Unitarian person I was interacting with. However, after I posted a previous dialog I had with him, someone who actually knows him e-mailed me and confirmed many of my suspicions. It seems that his background is as a Jehovah’s Witness, and now he goes to some churches (and makes posts on Facebook) as some kind of missionary effort. If that is true, which seems at least somewhat likely, then it certainly explains his beliefs.
As Christians, it is very important for us to be able to refute false beliefs that lead us away from the truth of Scripture. It is particularly important when the false beliefs present to us a different God than is revealed in the Bible. It is my prayer that this dialog will give you some profound insights about how to deal with someone who is out to lead you, and others, astray.
© 2021 Freddy Davis